Whew.

[velvetpage]

I've spent most of my internet time today reading the Rape post I linked to this morning - or rather, reading half of the 1563 comments on it. (I got to page six out of eleven.)

The comments got me thinking.

I have the world's best guy. No, seriously. Some of you out there may have the world's best guy, too, and he's a different guy from my world's best guy, but really, you don't get any better than Piet. And yet, there have been a few moments when he has caught me by surprise, or acted playfully in a way that rubbed me wrong, when I was momentarily afraid of him. It was an instantaneous reaction on my part, a flashback to a deeply-internalized message to be careful, always be careful, don't trust, don't put yourself in a bad situation, keep your keys in your hand, why are you still drinking that when you took your eyes off it for a whole minute?

That's awful on so many levels. It's awful that I ever have that reaction with the one person above all others I should be able to trust completely. It's awful that that reaction might ever keep me safe. And it's awful that the vast majority of women reading this post are nodding their heads in agreement with it, because they do it, too.

The statement that got a bunch of backs up was: "Every man is a potential rapist." That statement doesn't mean, "Any man could turn around and rape me at any moment." It means, "I have to treat unknown men, and some known ones, with extreme caution, to protect myself, because one in five men MIGHT rape me in certain conditions and I don't know if this guy is one of those." It is not an attempt to tar everyone with the same brush - only to acknowledge the reality of the fear that women live with every day.

It also got me thinking about how to make these points to my class in an age-appropriate way. My kids are already into sexual innuendo and outright nastiness, all verbal as far as I know. How do I tell them that it doesn't matter what the girls say to the boys - if the boys use the girls' status as females as a weapon against them, then they're contributing to rape culture? That the word "faggot" is doing the same thing, only in a homosexual context, with the added subtext of that sex being less okay than hetero sex? That respect is not something you give to people that have earned it - it's something you give as a default, and that sexual respect is never, ever, EVER the part of respect that gets dropped even if you hate that person and scorn them in every other way?

I don't know how to teach this. I'm afraid if I don't, they won't hear it. And I know a few of them are only a few short years from being in a position where they could rape or be raped by members of their peer group. (It could be happening now, of course. That makes me sick to my stomach.) Some of them already treat pretty much every interaction with girls as a power struggle. It scares me.

I'm leaving comments unscreened because I prefer discussion. Play nice. I'll delete and moderate as necessary, but I'm hoping it won't be. It's unlocked, link if you like, and anyone who comes to see: respect the rules.

Comments

[pthalo]

I got through most of the comments that were posted at the time I read it in a fit of mascochism, though it wasn't so bad... there were a lot of stories about good guys, and only a few people needing cluebats, and it wasn't 8 (i think? don't remember how many there were when i read it) pages of people talking at each other which often happens.

And it's awful that the vast majority of women reading this post are nodding their heads in agreement with it, because they do it, too.

*nods*

it's particularly an issue for me because I'm at the point where I wonder why someone would bother to deal with the fears I have which aren't going anywhere any time soon and will probably remain on some level. i can imagine getting really comfortable with someone and trusting them. i can't imagine getting to the point where i will never cringe when they touch me (i can imagine getting to the point where i won't cringe very often), and i know that will hurt them.

but that's neither here nor there.

I don't know how to teach that either, but it's an important thing to teach. I've never been able to decide whether I want boy children or girl children. They're both difficult. Girls needed to be taught self-respect and they need to be taught not to be afraid (but to still protect themselves somehow). And boys need to be raised to be gentle and loving and respect women. And both need to not be forced into gender roles. the rest is the same for both girls and boys: they have to be taught about racism and about homophobia and about disabilities and appreciation (not mere tolerance) and love for people who are different... so much work and so important.

and it's hard with ten year olds...as a teacher you have a huge role in their lives, almost as big as their parents if not more in some cases, because you're with them all day, day in and day out. But at ten, sex is funny and embarassing and rape is something their parents probably don't want them worrying about yet. i wish i had something to offer, but i don't. but i wish you lots of luck with it and i think you can do it.

[velvetpage.livejournal.com]

You've got PTSD. Of course you cringe. Take your time, hon. *hugs*

[pthalo]

*hug*

[kisekileia.livejournal.com]

I haven't read the post you linked yet, but this post of yours is wonderful. I'm glad that you're thinking about these things.

And yeah, I definitely have that fear of rape, especially since I know I am too small and uncoordinated to fight off potential attackers. It's something almost all guys really don't understand.

[velvetpage.livejournal.com]

*nods* The good guys out there often don't realize how threatening they may appear in certain situations, because they know they would never in a million years hurt a woman - but that doesn't mean she's not looking warily at them when it's night and they're the only two around. A lot of the stories in that post were about guys who went up to women who were getting off the bus and said, "I'm going down X street. If that's the way you're going, stay here so I can get a bit ahead of you so you don't have to wonder why I'm lurking behind you." That kind of story showed extra sensitivity, and we need that sometimes.

[r-caton.livejournal.com]

frankly I'm not keen to have unknown people too close when walking home at night of whatever gender. And it isn't "safe" waiting at the bus stop, either. That post was hard going and the message I got was "tough s**t, male, you can't win ANY way". I have problems dealing with people in any case and frankly, I can't be handling other peoples perceptions of me based on appearance, presumption and prejudice. Oh BTW FYI white, fat, bald, moustached male, 52, straight, and increasingly misanthropic.

[velvetpage.livejournal.com]

What makes you think anyone wins? We certainly don't - if we let go and have fun and get raped, we were asking for it, and if we don't we live our whole lives in at least some degree of fear. I mean, you're upset at being tarred as a bad guy simply for being male, while we're upset at the high probability that we will be assaulted if we don't treat every male that way at least at first. Neither is great - but I think the fear of being assaulted trumps the fear that someone will mistake you for a potential assailant.

[r-caton.livejournal.com]

I don't expect anyone to win in a debate like this.
I'm just cheesed off about losing is all.
Only time people seem to treat me as human is when they want something. When the got it it's back into the box until next time. All outgoing and no incoming. And of course it's MY fault.

[starry-midnight.livejournal.com]

If a guy said that to me...if anyone said that to me...I'd get right back on the bus. Everyone has the ability to facilitate a sense of danger and fear. Seriously though, I would read that all wrong...as creepy and lying and maybe premeditation and hop it right back on....

[pyat.livejournal.com]

*hugs*

[mar2nee.livejournal.com]

Hard to say how to pass these messages along. Yes, people should be careful. And, somehow, people should know that we can't actually protect ourselves from stranger assault. It's a myth (that we can protect ourselves) that adds to the guilt victims feel.
IMHO.

[velvetpage.livejournal.com]

Very true. And if it happens in the context of a relationship, they blame themselves even more - for thinking he was okay, for not getting out sooner, etc, etc.

I made the point very briefly to a few of my girls that it was entirely up to them when they had sex, that if they couldn't see their way clear to either a baby or an abortion, they needed to use extremely good protection and/or wait a long time. But I don't teach girls at the age when this is more than a distant possibility, and I worry for them.