I see two sides to this, the base idea is good, keep family's together. The output is wrong though. If jail cells must be used (and I mean MUST be used do to space) then it should not be run like a jail! Keep cells open, family's side by side. Children should get proper food, eductation, health care, it should be run like a community! No different if say you had them all in an apartment building or a senior care facility.
This is doing two things (maybe it is part of their plan, I dunno) Telling people who have not come over yet that if you do, you will be treated like a criminal, and punishing those who did and the children who need the interm help the most.
Non violent criminals are not often incarcerated when going through their trials. That's the thing. I do believe they are criminals, but I don't think this is the best thing to do.
Nope. Not reasonable, and a waste of resources, which SCREWS ME OVER TOO.
A lot of my beliefs are based on how wasteful they are.
Let them out and let it go through the courts, like it said -- if they disappear, then wait until you find them again and then woosh deport them immediately.
What they should do, is get an entire apartment complex just for them. Cheaper than a jail, respectful, and still serves the purpose of making them easier to find when they're needed.
It's important that, as far as the article can be trusted, these people are refugees by the official Geneva Convention definition. That gives them legal rights, including asylum, in any country that has signed onto the Convention - which the U.S. has. Therefore, the U.S. is probably in violation of international law over this one. Not like that would be a first - anyone wanna buy some cheap Canadian lumber?
We actually have quite a few decommissioned military bases in the US left over from the Cold War. I wonder why some official didn't do the obvious and look at reactivating one for this purpose. The old barracks would be relatively easy to secure and provide much better accomodations. In other words, if these people are non-violent, then why not put them in something similar to a low security prison?
I think this boils down to the long standing US xenophobia. Plus people in the Southwestern states really, I mean really, loathe illegal Mexican immigrants. Some of it's racism, some of it's just fatigue from having a lot of undocumented, non taxed, people turning up in the social system for emergency services of various kinds. I think most folks would have some compassion for the plight of immigrants, but they're just kind of tired of a problem that does not go away. Namely the terrible economic situation in Mexico and parts farther South. Unfortunately, that fatigue contributes to an overall bad attitude towards all immigrants. And that makes for punitive policies getting enacted on an unconscious as well as a deliberate level.
I wonder why some official didn't do the obvious and look at reactivating one for this purpose. The old barracks would be relatively easy to secure and provide much better accommodations.
Two reasons: 1) They wouldn't get the kickback for letting the contract to build the place to begin with. Texas politicians are, almost by definition, corrupt.
2) As you hint at, this kind of treatment of "goddam illegals" plays well in much of Texas. Don't forget, we are among the most active states in the Minuteman "border guards" (http://www.minutemanhq.com/).
IME, the majority of Texans see all aliens the same way, legal or illegal, refugee or not. Have you seen "Children of Men (http://imdb.com/title/tt0206634/)"? That dystopic view of a future of closed borders and forced deportations of anyone not born here would be welcomed by many Texans.
-- A very liberal wyldraven hangs head in shame at having to admit he lives in Texas.
I haven't seen my local politicians to be corrupt. (Chet Edwards, Kay Bailey Hutchison, John Cornyn on the Federal level. I'm ashamed to admit I don't know who my state legislaturists are.) I do admit that the general view of any and all immigrants is the same across the board, regardless of the individual immigrant's status.
I'm also aware that it's not nearly as prevalent here, but Killeen is a unique community in a lot of respects, due to things like proximity to Austin (that weirdo liberal bastion in conservative Texas *tongue in cheek) and identification with Ft. Hood.
Hmmm. I seem to be represented by John R. Carter rather than Chet Edwards.
Troy Fraser and Jimmie Don Aycock are my state senator and representative, respectively.
I can definitely see how Tom Delay would color ones perceptions of Texas politicians. Between him and the idiocy a year or so back with restructuring the districts... *Just rolls eyes*
I do have to admit that I'm proud of Governor Good Hair, though. *L* Even though it's possible to wiggle out of it, the mandatory HPV vaccination for girls entering 6th grade is a fantastic idea. By the time it goes into effect, I have little doubt that it will be rendered all but ineffective, however. Especially since religious grounds are an acceptable opt-out. *shrug*
Governor Good Hair and the HPV vaccine? Yeah, even if it was because of a kickback, it's ultimately good. He gets credit for that one. Allow me to refer you to a post I made on that (http://wyldraven.livejournal.com/294084.html) before the kickback had been reported.
There was something else in the paper yesterday, two things that were unreasonable.
One, Hmong, who we originally gave an easy ticket to citizenship because of their help during the Vietnam war, are now being marked as terrorists and having a HARDER time staying here legally, and two, we raised citizenship fees, and resident fees and all that crap to an OBSCENE amount. It was already pretty high.
What I want to do is ENCOURAGE legal immigration. Welcome people with open arms if they go through the process, which is already long and expensive. Now it's still long and twice as expensive. Sick, sick, sick.
It shouldn't be much harder than getting a job with the government, to be honest. Or perhaps a bank or securities firm, or joining the military, or teaching -- lots of people go through background checks every day and it doesnt take them that long to be hired so it shouldnt take em that long to get legal papers. Grrr.
Exactly. I know one person who is in Canada illegally at the moment because her papers ran out before she and her husband could raise enough money to pay all the fees. I mean, come on! That's ridiculous.
But, on the other hand, the said person is not trying to get a job or on the welfare system either. They are also not eligable for the free health care or drug programs, and have to fork all the money for those expenses out of their own pocket as well.
I think the biggest concern with the illegal statused is that they are not just sitting waiting for something to happen, plus I would think spouses of legal citizens don't have the same issues as a whole family trying to gain entry, and that most spousal immigrants(like said person above) are not in danger of being kicked out, just denied re-entry if they leave.
There have been a few cases of spouses of Canadian citizens or landed immigrants who have been deported, but that's not really the point. You're right, this is a separate case from those who are illegal from the outset, or are using social programs while they're here.
If this is who I think it is (and for that matter, even if it isn't) you're welcome to use your name. I use the same standards for non-friend comments as I do for friend ones. I'm not going to delete the comment unless it's unacceptable in its content.
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(no subject)
Date: 2007-02-22 01:21 pm (UTC)I see two sides to this, the base idea is good, keep family's together. The output is wrong though. If jail cells must be used (and I mean MUST be used do to space) then it should not be run like a jail! Keep cells open, family's side by side. Children should get proper food, eductation, health care, it should be run like a community! No different if say you had them all in an apartment building or a senior care facility.
This is doing two things (maybe it is part of their plan, I dunno) Telling people who have not come over yet that if you do, you will be treated like a criminal, and punishing those who did and the children who need the interm help the most.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-02-22 01:33 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-02-22 01:33 pm (UTC)A lot of my beliefs are based on how wasteful they are.
Let them out and let it go through the courts, like it said -- if they disappear, then wait until you find them again and then woosh deport them immediately.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-02-22 02:01 pm (UTC)It's important that, as far as the article can be trusted, these people are refugees by the official Geneva Convention definition. That gives them legal rights, including asylum, in any country that has signed onto the Convention - which the U.S. has. Therefore, the U.S. is probably in violation of international law over this one. Not like that would be a first - anyone wanna buy some cheap Canadian lumber?
(no subject)
Date: 2007-02-22 02:37 pm (UTC)I think this boils down to the long standing US xenophobia. Plus people in the Southwestern states really, I mean really, loathe illegal Mexican immigrants. Some of it's racism, some of it's just fatigue from having a lot of undocumented, non taxed, people turning up in the social system for emergency services of various kinds. I think most folks would have some compassion for the plight of immigrants, but they're just kind of tired of a problem that does not go away. Namely the terrible economic situation in Mexico and parts farther South. Unfortunately, that fatigue contributes to an overall bad attitude towards all immigrants. And that makes for punitive policies getting enacted on an unconscious as well as a deliberate level.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-02-22 03:23 pm (UTC)Two reasons:
1) They wouldn't get the kickback for letting the contract to build the place to begin with. Texas politicians are, almost by definition, corrupt.
2) As you hint at, this kind of treatment of "goddam illegals" plays well in much of Texas. Don't forget, we are among the most active states in the Minuteman "border guards" (http://www.minutemanhq.com/).
IME, the majority of Texans see all aliens the same way, legal or illegal, refugee or not. Have you seen "Children of Men (http://imdb.com/title/tt0206634/)"? That dystopic view of a future of closed borders and forced deportations of anyone not born here would be welcomed by many Texans.
-- A very liberal
(no subject)
Date: 2007-02-23 02:03 am (UTC)I haven't seen my local politicians to be corrupt. (Chet Edwards, Kay Bailey Hutchison, John Cornyn on the Federal level. I'm ashamed to admit I don't know who my state legislaturists are.) I do admit that the general view of any and all immigrants is the same across the board, regardless of the individual immigrant's status.
I'm also aware that it's not nearly as prevalent here, but Killeen is a unique community in a lot of respects, due to things like proximity to Austin (that weirdo liberal bastion in conservative Texas *tongue in cheek) and identification with Ft. Hood.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-02-23 03:13 am (UTC)http://www.fyi.legis.state.tx.us/
(no subject)
Date: 2007-02-23 08:43 am (UTC)Troy Fraser and Jimmie Don Aycock are my state senator and representative, respectively.
I can definitely see how Tom Delay would color ones perceptions of Texas politicians. Between him and the idiocy a year or so back with restructuring the districts... *Just rolls eyes*
I do have to admit that I'm proud of Governor Good Hair, though. *L* Even though it's possible to wiggle out of it, the mandatory HPV vaccination for girls entering 6th grade is a fantastic idea. By the time it goes into effect, I have little doubt that it will be rendered all but ineffective, however. Especially since religious grounds are an acceptable opt-out. *shrug*
(no subject)
Date: 2007-02-23 02:24 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-02-23 07:28 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-02-22 01:37 pm (UTC)One, Hmong, who we originally gave an easy ticket to citizenship because of their help during the Vietnam war, are now being marked as terrorists and having a HARDER time staying here legally, and two, we raised citizenship fees, and resident fees and all that crap to an OBSCENE amount. It was already pretty high.
What I want to do is ENCOURAGE legal immigration. Welcome people with open arms if they go through the process, which is already long and expensive. Now it's still long and twice as expensive. Sick, sick, sick.
It shouldn't be much harder than getting a job with the government, to be honest. Or perhaps a bank or securities firm, or joining the military, or teaching -- lots of people go through background checks every day and it doesnt take them that long to be hired so it shouldnt take em that long to get legal papers. Grrr.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-02-22 01:57 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-02-22 05:04 pm (UTC)I think the biggest concern with the illegal statused is that they are not just sitting waiting for something to happen, plus I would think spouses of legal citizens don't have the same issues as a whole family trying to gain entry, and that most spousal immigrants(like said person above) are not in danger of being kicked out, just denied re-entry if they leave.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-02-22 05:21 pm (UTC)If this is who I think it is (and for that matter, even if it isn't) you're welcome to use your name. I use the same standards for non-friend comments as I do for friend ones. I'm not going to delete the comment unless it's unacceptable in its content.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-02-22 09:19 pm (UTC)I didn't realize that till just now though either, sigh.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-02-22 09:20 pm (UTC)Groan
(no subject)
Date: 2007-02-22 09:51 pm (UTC)That is meant to be a compliment, on the off chance you are not a fan of hers... =)
(no subject)
Date: 2007-02-22 06:21 pm (UTC)But now...having read it...I just...no words. GAH. We suck sometimes.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-02-22 07:49 pm (UTC)infants and toddlers???? What are they thinking?