I'm starting to understand.

[velvetpage]

I'm starting to understand why so many people in Booju do not expect me to know my stuff when it comes to my profession, and why teachers get so little respect in much of the States. There's a thread in the current debate about the stupidity of education majors at U.S. universities, and it's absolutely appalling. First, education seems to be a first degree there, which it isn't here; that is, in the States people study education right out of high school concurrent with a teachable subject, whereas in Ontario, most education majors already have a four-year B.A. before they get into the faculty of education. The grade requirements for education majors are also extremely low. One person posted a link to the verbal scores of college students averaged by major; the education students were second from the bottom.

Around here, you pretty much need an A- average just to get into Teachers' College. My sister had a B+ and they wouldn't look at her. You also need extensive teaching experience, both volunteer and paid. The type of experience varies by faculty, but for Brock, it's three teaching experiences with letters of recommendation from two of them.

So Canada takes only the very successful, while the States scrapes the bottom of the barrel. It explains a lot.

Comments

[neebs.livejournal.com]

Right, BUT...not all teachers are like that.

I know you know that, but I have to point that out, cuz my mom is a few credits shy of a masters in Chem (and taught middle school chem) and my good friend was an English major, with a minor in education, who is SO English nerdy it's not even funny.

Of course, on the flip side, you have programs like Teach for America where anyone with any background can teach anything in any impoverished school.

Like I said, you know all this. But the dichotomy between the teachers here is unbelievable.

[velvetpage.livejournal.com]

That kind of breadth of ability is much rarer in Canada, because the requirements are so stringent. So it's a relatively safe bet that someone with a Canadian teaching degree is a fairly smart person. The same cannot be said of someone with a teaching degree in the States. You might get a smart person, and you might not.

[melstra.livejournal.com]

This is also true. In all fairness to my previous post (below), I should mention that my brother and his wife are both high school teachers. They went through what is called "alternate certification" (I.e. they were in the work force for 10 years before they took the courses for certification) with original degrees in their subjects. My aunt was an English teacher for years and while I dont' remember her college qualifications, she definitely knew her stuff. We have lots of eminently qualified teachers in my family, and indeed throughout the country. So, it's really unfair to paint everyone with a broad brush.

But, my other comments still stand. Some of the students out there who study education are in sore need of some basics. More power to them for wanting to take up the profession in the first place, however. The pay down here isn't the greatest, the respect isn't there at all, and you might just get shot. So what's the incentive for the "smart kids" to take up teaching?

[girlydoll.livejournal.com]

I guess the incentive is cheap thrills on a daily basis, and a potential huge payout on your life insurance!

[neebs.livejournal.com]

"So what's the incentive for the "smart kids" to take up teaching?"

EXACTLY. And it's not even as far as "you might get shot"--you might get sued for a number of reasons and almost every school above elementary at this point has an issue with violence. Especially as you get around major cities, gangs become a HUGE issue, even in the wealthiest parts of town.

[melstra.livejournal.com]

You've got that right. I had no idea the requirements for teacher's college were so stringent. (Though I suppose I should have...my inlaws are both teachers). As I said, I teach plenty of education majors here, and the amount of coursework they need to have in their discipline is apalling. (Most of their courses are things like "history of education"). Of course, you CAN go alternate routes, by majoring in a subject and doing the necessary certification coursework on the side, and many do that. But, it can be a pain.

There are definitely smart education majors here, but the stereotypes aren't all wrong. Very sad.

Sorry you end up the brunt of some American misconceptions regarding education practcices.

[anidada.livejournal.com]

You might want to point that out in a post to the comm, if you haven't already...

[velvetpage.livejournal.com]

I've been pointing it out in comments.

off-topic...sort of

[melstra.livejournal.com]

Ya wanna know some real irony??? Because I got so caught up in commenting and reading this post and the other education post you put up this morning, I have ended up behind in my grading, such that I can't make a lecture on "teaching students with Autism and Asperger's" that I'd really wanted to attend.

D'Oh!!!

Re: off-topic...sort of

[velvetpage.livejournal.com]

Oh, that's too bad. That would be fascinating. :(

Re: off-topic...sort of

[melstra.livejournal.com]

I know!! I'm *totally* kicking myself for not finishing up these exams last night, but I just couldn't do it. I figured I'd have tons of time this morning. I should have just gone into the lecture anyway, but I have enough stress right now, I need to focus on MY students, not the ones I might have someday in the future. Oh well. Maybe I can email the speaker.

Re: off-topic...sort of

[sassy-fae.livejournal.com]

Aww.. I would have been interested to see what they would have had to say.

Last Monday, I attended an event on the exact opposite side of things: the parents of kids with autism support group I help run had a guest speaker (a recently retired teacher) who was talking about how to navigate the school system and advocate on behalf of their child, as their needs are rarely ever met.

[merlyn4401.livejournal.com]

It's really scary here. I had the same experience in college - education was considered a "gimme" major.

On the plus side, more and more teachers are starting to get advanced degrees. I was looking at Jamie's elementary school for next year, and over 3/4 have a Master's degree.

that icon...

[brightflashes.livejournal.com]

Where's your icon from? It reminds me of Anne of Green Gables.

Re: that icon...

[velvetpage.livejournal.com]

That's where it's from. :)

[kibbles.livejournal.com]

But to be a teacher here you DO need a Masters. Teachers without them are only allowed to teach for a limited amount of time if they are going for their masters. Usually just subs or something...maybe not everywhere, but where I've sent my kids, their teachers needed a masters. Education was a possible major as an undergrad, and your needing another subject depended on what you wanted to teach. If you are teaching early childhood education you don't need massive amounts of history, for example. HS teachers I believe need a minor in their subject that they teach. That I am fuzzy on, I would have to ask my cousin.

[velvetpage.livejournal.com]

Is that a state requirement or a federal one?

[kibbles.livejournal.com]

I think state. I'm looking up Iowa now, and I see all the additional requirements for teaching different subjects:

http://www.state.ia.us/boee/addition.html (small type gives me a headache-I am not seeing a master's as a requirement)

NCLB requires a bachelors degree. But I believe that you have the right to know what education your teacher (child's teacher) has. I assumed that the master's was required because Finbar's teacher has one. Doh!

Apparently it is NYC that gives you 5 years to get your master's after you become a teacher. So there you go. I just projected the NYC requirements onto Iowa because of Finbar's teacher and my happiness with his teachers and Ted's teachers. It may explain why my daughter is being taught my MORONS.

http://schools.nyc.gov/Offices/DHR/Employees/TeachersSchoolbasedStaff/Certification.htm

NYS also requires that you have a certain number of continuing education credits during your career. (175 hours every 5 years if I am reading it correctly)

http://www.highered.nysed.gov/tcert/certificate/certprocess.htm

[kibbles.livejournal.com]

Also it's funny, the UK does the same with nurses, or did when I was trying to go to school there. Nurses have little respect and their school did NOT impress me. At all. And reading trade mags just cemented it (as well as seeing them at work).

And I think the USA wouldn't have to scrape the bottom if they paid them a bit better. Education attracts two sorts here. Those that love to teach, and those who want a lot of time off, and decent benefits/civil service job with security.