An interesting, if condescending, suggestion

[velvetpage]

I got this from mizheekay, whose response is a well-written version of, "How dare you condescend to criticize the education of some of the best-educated professionals in the country!" I'm still thinking about my own letter of response. If you want to see hers, it's posted in ontario_teacher.

Dear Friends and Family,

In The End of Education, Neil Postman, a respected American educator and
cultural philosopher, writes that one goal of education should be
"deepening a love of one's country" (130). Postman argues that in
order to instill such national pride in their students, American
teachers would benefit from having read:
a.. Thomas Paine's The Rights of Man
b.. The Declaration of Independence
c.. The Constitution
d.. Alexis de Tocqueville's Democracy in America
e.. The Gettysburgh Address
f.. The Emancipation Proclamation
g.. Mark Twain's The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn
h.. Nathaniel Hawthorne's The Scarlett Letter
i.. John Dewey's Democracy and Education
j.. John F. Kennedy's inaugural address
k.. Martin Luther King Jr.'s "I Have a Dream" speech
Actually Postman goes farther than merely suggesting what American
teachers should have read. He writes, "If a teacher has not read this
material, I would be reluctant to have him or her in close contact with
American children."

It got me thinking. What about Canadian teachers? What should they
have read before they begin to teach Canadian children? Would the texts
necessarily be political? Would they all be authored by Canadians?
Would they trace our history somehow as Postman's list does? Or would
they include poetry, literature, magazines?

What do you think? What book / document should Canadian teachers have
to read as part of their pedagogical formation? Why?

Send us your opinion.

1. Tell us your name and the name of the province in which you reside.
2. Identify your interest in education: Are you a parent? A teacher?
A student? A principal?
3. Name the book or document you want to top list of Required Reading
for Canadian Teachers.
4. Then write a brief explanation of why this book should be on top of
a required reading list for Canadian teachers.
5. E-mail your submission to us at
required_reading_for_canadian_teachers@educationservices.ca

Then what?

-- We'll post your selection (with your name, province of residence,
and comments) on this website.

-- Before the end of the school year, we'll hold a run-off vote for the
top 25 books.

-- Once the list is compiled, we'll send it to the faculties of
education of Canadian universities.

-- Over the summer, we'll begin reading the books you select, and post
one review each month beginning the September 2007.

-- If we get enough entries, we'll publish your recommendations and our
reviews in hard copy.

Get involved in the education of Canada's children! Send us your pick
of the book Canadian teachers must read.


We can't wait to hear from you and to start reading!

Diane

Diane L. Duff, B. Ed., Director
Aldridge-Duff & Associates
www.educationservices.ca 613-730-7096

Comments

[pyat.livejournal.com]

So... they're going to review the books AFTER recommending them to the universities?

[velvetpage.livejournal.com]

Hmm. I hadn't noticed that, but you're right. *files criticism to add to future letter*

[melstra.livejournal.com]

Actually, I don't have a problem with that order. The idea is that they're going to let the public have their say on voting on the list of books (not review and cherry pick the list themselves). That's sort of time-dependent. Then, in their own time, as they write their online newsletter or whatever, they're going to use that list as a basis for writing book reviews which will help the "general public" to become acquainted with all the books on the list (some of which they might have voted for personally, but most of which they probably need refreshers about). If I'm interpreting it correctly, it's a neat idea, actually. Just looking at the "US" list above, there are several there that I haven't read (Scarlet Letter, for example, alas) or at least not in a loooooong time. A quick brush through a "book review" of them (particularly an insightful one) would be interesting for someone like me who doesn't have the time to dig out Tocqueville between prepping for classes.

[anenomemama.livejournal.com]

I read this list, and the response to which you linked. I liked the response. However, I don't actually see that the original post is necessarily condescending...I think there is a valid point to suggesting that there is a set of cultural documents about which teachers should be aware. (I'm sorry, I messed up the coffee this morning, and I don't think I'm being very articulate.)

However, I also think that being a teacher is among the most difficult of professions, especially when it seems like *everyone* is your boss and you are expected to do things for children which their own parents will not. (I mean the implication that teachers alone are responsible for reading the list of books so they can educate children.) (Again, not articulate.)

As I age I am more and more of the mind that we are losing important parts of our cultural history and our ability to think critically. I learned so much about language and how to construct an argument (not that you'd get it from this comment) by taking Latin and Greek in high school. Do any high schools even offer Latin and Greek any more? Maybe those subjects are rightly gone and replaced with, I don't know, Media Studies. But after listening to a CBC radio interview with some high school students this morning my concern about the collective "dumbing down" of our society is ringing between my ears.

[velvetpage.livejournal.com]

If they had phrased it as a suggestion, or as a set of cultural documents about which all Canadians should be aware, I wouldn't be upset with it. But the implications are a) teachers alone are responsible for knowing these documents and passing them on to children; b) teachers won't have come up with this list for themselves; c) Joe Q. Public has the right/responsibility to dictate the curriculum of the various faculties of education, above the actual professors or the ministry of education; d) not having a certain grasp of patriotic literature makes one unfit to teach children (this one is particularly thorny, actually - that list is full of primary sources, but it concentrates almost entirely on Big Events, to the exclusion of almost all context for those events, and as a student of history I find that rather dangerous.)

I think we need to start teaching critical thinking in grade eleven, to replace the rhetoric that kids used to get through Latin and Greek. Keep in mind, though, that your high school was probably much more streamed than high schools are now, at least in Ontario. The kids who would have been taking Latin and Greek would already have been selected from the top layers at the school. Some of that streaming has disappeared in an effort to give "higher standards," and far from putting kids first, it's actually giving them fewer opportunities. Not everyone needs an extremely academic high school education, and by forcing that on all students, we end up dumbing down the academics for those who would be able to handle more.

[melstra.livejournal.com]

I agree with both of you two--in part. I can understand that your hackles would be raised, velvetpage, at the idea of others dictating what teachers need to have read...and I definitely agree that I would have MUCH preferred to see this as a list of texts that the general public should read (or a more general list of texts that students should have read before graduating). And yet, I think the spirit of the letter was not meant to be condescending or prescriptive. Now Postman's comment on the other hand, the one which said that "If a teacher has not read thismaterial, I would be reluctant to have him or her in close contact with American children"--now that bothers me all to heck. But let's leave Postman aside for a moment. That's another can of worms.

I agree with anemonemama that the public shouldn't be discouraged from putting in their opinions about what teachers should know. I know that can go overboard and result in too much stifling of educators' freedoms, but in my opinion it's a shade better than having them abdicate all responsibility. (I know teachers who have called parents with a concern only to be told "I don't care...you handle it. Teaching is YOUR job, not mine.") Look at it this way: if they're helping compile a list of important works, one assumes that they at least have a passing familiarity with those works themselves, enough to know they're important. So in that respect they're already participating in the education of their own children (meeting the teachers halfway is a huge issue of mine). In my opinion, it's the ones who don't care a whit about joining the discussion who are the real problem parents. However, keep in mind I'm speaking from an American perspective and I think we have a lot more problems here.

I don't really know who Diane Duff is, but since the letter said that the ultimate list would be sent to colleges and universities, my impression is that this person isn't so much interested in "who's teaching our children" now, but in how one can better prepare students who are studying education. As someone who teaches college and who has taught many students who hope one day to teach, I can see a lot of good in being vigilent that those future teachers are as well prepared as possible. Granted, I have a lot of problems with the way that currently happens, but a dialogue like Ms. Huff's doesn't seem like an inherently bad thing.

She also seemed to be more posing the question than putting a politcal slant on it. Postman's original list was largely based on historic events and political ideologies, but her question specifically asked if the public felt they ought to include art, literature, etc. I think it's a valid question. In fact, it's a discussion I'd love to see on any of our friends lists (both for a list of American and of Canadian books). I hope that you'll ask the question, in fact!

I guess I'm just not feeling the same anger about the letter unless mizheekay is extrapolating Mr. Postman's tacit critique to the letter as a whole? I apologize that I've not yet read the response.

Another P.S. to <lj user=mizheekay>

[melstra.livejournal.com]

Ok, just went and read her response. It was beautifully written and I agree totally. Of course, I still don't think I'd get quite so upset over it, because I think the original letter "meant well," but she makes a good point.

P.S. about languages...

[melstra.livejournal.com]

P.S. As for what languages are being taught in schools, I can speak for American schools. The majority of schools have no language requirement at all, though at least two years are encouraged if you hope to attend college. I venture to say that EVERY American high school teaches Spanish. Most teach at least one other language. It used to be that the most common other languages were French, German and Latin (probably in that order). Chinese, Arabic and Japanese have replaced one of those three in most schools (i.e. the school would now teach spanish, french and chinese, for example). You'd be very hard pressed to find Greek in any high schools. This change in language instruction is primarily ideological. Instruction in Greek and Latin is fundamentally different since they're "dead languages"-- it is seen as a training in logic, linguistics, philology, culture, etc. rather than a "useful skill." (Not saying I necesarily agree, here). The study of Spanish, Chinese, etc. is obviously less related to making our students well-rounded and more a knee-jerk reaction to perceived economic dictates.Naturally I'm all in favor of language study, no matter what the reason (I'm a German prof), but the motivations are changing from preparing culturally aware students who think critically, to preparing students who have the "life skills" (whatever those are) to function in our global world. It's a laudable goal, but one which often boils down to buzz words, standardized tests and your aforementioned "dumbing down of society."

Sorry for hijacking the post. :)

Re: P.S. about languages...

[velvetpage.livejournal.com]

In Canada, French is a given in all English high schools. Other than that, it depends on the teaching staff. My high school had German, because one of the teachers hired to teach French was actually German. (It was strange - if you went through several years of French with her, you probably came out speaking French with a German accent.) There was also a teacher who taught French, Latin, and Spanish, in that order. Latin died out while I was there - nobody wanted to take it. I'm sure there are high schools that teach Asian languages, but I'm not familiar with any.

Re: P.S. about languages...

[lovmelovmycats.livejournal.com]

No Spanish offered in the public high school I attended. French only. Of course, it's an extremely small school in upstate NY "practically Canada", my husband teases me.

Re: P.S. about languages...

[melstra.livejournal.com]

Really? Cool. I'm from Maine, another border state, and we only had French and Spanish. But my graduating class was 160, so I guess that was just enough to support both. Perhaps your school may change, though. I know I'm continually surprised at the influx of hispanics in northern states, and since hispanic culture/language is so pervasive in the US as a whole (if only as a political issue), schools seem to be jumping on the bandwagon.

[anenomemama.livejournal.com]

I get the irritation at "John Q. Public" determining what teachers should read. But *isn't* it the role of the public at large to determine what knowledge and information teachers pass on to children?

I would like to feel as though I have a hand in that - I don't feel as though that is exclusively the role of the faculties of education at public universities or the Ministry of Education. I do actually feel as though I have a responsibility to participate in how the education of my own and others' children is carried out in the public school system.

And good point about the streaming: I am so old and so out of it in terms of how education is actually delivered now that I had forgotten about the impact of streaming.

[velvetpage.livejournal.com]

Again, suggestions are welcome; hard-and-fast lists of required reading are not. You absolutely should have a say in how our nation educates its young, especially since two of those young are yours. But it's a collaborative process, and one that should be undertaken in such a way as to respect the professionalism and education of the people who are undertaking the job.

I suppose it goes back to who the list is for: teachers, or a general list of suggested readings for all citizens? If it's the former, it's a rather condescending way to go about achieving the latter - which, I think, is the actual goal.

[anenomemama.livejournal.com]

But *don't* we hold teachers to a higher standard than "all citizens"? My great-grandmother was an illiterate immigrant who could neither speak English nor read and write in her own language, Ukranian.

She raised eight children without a husband (killed quite young in an industrial accident while participating in the building of the CPR) and each and every one got a university education, including the girls; one of whom was among the very first women to graduate from Queen's faculty of law.

I don't mean to cloud your argument with an overly personal anecdote, and I recognize that I am talking about a time fairly considerably in the past, but my g-g'ma absolutely counted upon the teachers to whom she entrusted her children to be not her peers but her betters in terms of the level of knowledge they held and could transmit.

[velvetpage.livejournal.com]

Of course teachers are, and should be, held to a higher standard. So who is qualified to set that standard? I would think it would be the people with the most education and experience invested in education - that is, the professors of the faculties of education, who mostly have degrees in a subject area, followed by graduate degrees in that subject area and in education. Your grandmother wouldn't have been qualified to set that standard, and by the same token, many of the people whose opinions have been solicited here, don't have the qualifications to set that standard. They do, and should, have the option to suggest what seems reasonable, but dictate it? No. The people who have the power to dictate that are those who are deemed to be the best-educated and most experienced teachers, and while they should accept suggestions, they should not be dictated to when it comes to their own profession.

[melstra.livejournal.com]

Absolutely true.
However, I don't really see that Ms. Duff's initiative has much bite. She doesn't suggest that it is part of a broader petition to dictate anything. It's sort of like NBC's ad campaign years ago "must-see" TV. Um, no, not really. No one forced me to watch. Or my list of "Must read" books. Sure, I can tell you "you simply MUST read this", but it's really just a suggestion. True, Ms. Duff probably should word things differently, but it's my supposition that the colleges and universities who receive these lists of "required reading" will take them as the recommendations they are and use them to spark conversation. If there IS a required list, I'm sure that the very "best educated and most experienced teachers" who are part of the Ed. faculty will be the ones with the final say of what goes there.

[anenomemama.livejournal.com]

I have a hard time seeing the initiative by [whoever is behind "educationalservices.ca"] as an attempt to "dictate" what teachers *must* read or even to set a standard. Like melstra says, I think it is more like "must-see TV".