Oh no! I'm going to die because of socialized health care!

[velvetpage]

The last thing I did before leaving this morning was post a debate in booju_newju asking if the U.S. should socialize their health care system. As a result, I haven't read much of my friends page - I've been replying and managing discussion over there ever since I got home.



I'm wondering about the perceived connection between long wait times and socialized medicine. There is a connection, certainly, but it's not, "Oh no! If the government is paying for it, we'll have to wait!" From my point of view, it appears to be mostly about infrastructure. We do not have enough doctors or other specialists, and if we did, we would lack some of the operating theatres, hospital beds, and other necessary things to reduce wait times. This is a systemic problem, certainly, but it is not one that would appear immediately upon instituting socialized medicine. The U.S. already has the infrastructure, and they certainly have enough doctors. (They could send back a few of the ones they've borrowed from us, actually. We need them ourselves.) There might be some shortages when all the currently-uninsured suddenly had access to the whole system, but they'd be manageable, and probably much of it would be absorbed by the current system. After all, everyone would have a lot more time to see patients if they weren't filling out dozens of forms and attempting to get blood from a stone payment from people who have no money.

Also, what's with this idea that "The government will tell me which doctors I have to see!" That is totally, categorically false. In fact, I have more choice of doctors than many insured Americans whose insurance companies tell them which doctors they're willing to pay for. I can see any doctor in Ontario by presenting my health card, if I have a referral. And, while I know many people who have to wait, I never have. It depends on the specialty how long you'll wait, and once you're on their patient roster, you won't have to wait again to see the doctor - though you may have to wait for your surgery. See previous comment about infrastructure.

Last complaint I have little patience with - "Our taxes will be too high for us to afford to eat!" Okay, maybe your taxes would go up - though it should be possible to do it for the amount already being paid for Medicare - but your health premiums would (almost) disappear, and the savings would be rather greater than the increase in taxes. No, the rich are not going to flee to places where they don't have to support the poor. There aren't a whole lot of those places left, at least not places where the rich would actually want to live.

Okay, I'm done now.

Comments

[kibbles.livejournal.com]

I don't think Americans are AWARE what percentage of their salary goes to premiums each month. We're talking around $1000 a month for a family. Imagine if they got that in pocket? Even HALF would be nice. That's a big raise!

I think here, since we have the system sort of in place, a subsidized insurance thing might work nicely. We have it for kids in many states, and some states have it for families too. Expand that. Have the state simply assist with the premium payment for working but uninsured families. That's got to be a lot easier than changing the system completely.

[firesign10.livejournal.com]

Socialized medicine sounds like a winner to me!

[anidada.livejournal.com]

http://accordionguy.blogware.com/blog/_archives/2007/1/17/2658922.html

Hot topic of the day, it seems...

[merlyn4401.livejournal.com]

Re: wait times. I get that from the number of complaints I have heard from both RL friends and online acquaintences about how long they have to wait to see a specialist. I *get* that you didn't in your case. I also *get* that it is an infrastructure problem.

But. One of the big reasons we have so many doctors and so many hospitals is that you can make so much money at it. Isn't that one of the reasons your docs are headed down here? So remove that incentive to become rich, or at least extremely well off, and you are going to lose a lot of future doctors. There are not a lot of people willing to work for the government, number one, and even fewer who are willing to work at a very set wage. Especially when they can go free market and make a lot more money. So a lot of docs will quit being docs becasue they don't want to deal with the government in their pocket, and a lot more won't even go to med school. And we'll be in the same place as Canada with having too few doctors.

[nettlefly.livejournal.com]

I actually wandered to your journal after reading that debate - I don't take part in any of these kind of discussions online as the opinions of the 'other side' tend to leave me exhausted just from reading it all. But I wanted to tell you that I really admire the way you stayed calm and explained how your system actually does work. Perhaps it is something one cannot really change people's minds on but it did make me feel a little better about the whole discussion seeing someone...well, agreeing with me:)

What I mean is that while I know that people leaning on the right don't have my views on life and even though I've read through similar opinions by the people not in favor of nationalised healthcare each time this topic is brought up, it actually seems a bit intimidating to read these opinions. Especially when one goes to the part whether healthcare is a basic human right - I know I've lived through enough hard times to know that had I lived in certain other countries I would probably be dead already so I just tend to take these very personally. In good and bad.

Well, take care of yourself and everything, I just wanted to let you know that at least someone heard and agreed with what you were saying:)

[pthalo]

I'm responding to this so long after the fact that I almost feel like perhaps I shouldn't do so, but I've been reading through some of your public entries (via your tags list) on topics that I find interesting.

And, I think when Americans hear socialised they think of communism and people waiting in long lines for the chance of bread and all that. Or they think of the kind of socialised medicine we have here today in Hungary. (Actually, I doubt most Americans think of Hungary specifically or could find it on a map. When I encounter them online and I tell them I'm from Hungary, sometimes they ask me what continent that's on. But I think they think of something like what we have here, without knowing it's what we have here. *g*)

In Hungary, doctors are paid less than teachers and teachers aren't paid very well. Many hospitals have closed in recent years because there's no money. Our economy has been quite badly effected by the global economical crisis so I don't see things getting better anytime soon. But we do have socialised medicine which means that I or any other Hungarian citizen with a social security number can go to the hospital and pay a "visit fee" of 400 forints (google tells me $2.07 canadian dollars) and be x-rayed or stitched up or have a tooth out or what have you. We also have family doctors, assigned by where you live, but you have a different one if you like. It's more for convenience to have one who lives in the same block of flats. I don't have one currently because I haven't gotten around to it since I moved in October and I have to find my birth certificate and I've been lazy/busy/sick.

The visit fee is new, it was instated a few years ago and people protested it greatly, because the people who are affected by it most are the elderly, who may need to see a doctor several times a week and are mostly living off pensions that are very small. The visit fees means that many of them can no longer afford to go to the doctor.

When I sprained my ankle last year, I was taken to the hospital in an ambulance (for free, and it would've been free even if I wasn't a citizen because it was an emergency, so of course it's free.) where I waited about four hours and then I was x-rayed and told it wasn't broken, that they couldn't give me a brace because there weren't any, they'd run out, and that they couldn't give me crutches because the only doctor who is allowed to give out crutches was on mandatory leave for working the previous night. They didn't give me pain killers, but wrote me a prescription. They called a taxi to take me home and I scooted up the stairs on my butt.

There are private doctors too, which are much more expensive. Those who can afford them go there, because the free medicine is barely adequate.

I think Americans picture something like this when they hear socialised medicine. They don't realise that in the United States, socialised medicine would probably look a lot like it does in Canada, which is the ideal of socialised medicine.

Anyway, I just felt like sharing, in case you were interested in hearing what socialised medicine is like in Hungary.