Illegal immigration?

[velvetpage]

Immigration crackdown

I can see several sides to this story.

First, I can see the side of the people who are stuck in a country that offers few opportunities, and who need to get out, but who have no hope of ever meeting the legal requirements to do so. The requirements to get into Canada are pretty strict in terms of finances and education; I would imagine they're similar in the U.S., and if they are, it means poor Mexicans who are willing to work in meat-packing jobs are never going to be eligible. Maybe the U.S. should start making it possible for worker families to immigrate legally, thereby solving a large part of the illegal problem.

Second, I can see the argument made here - that the identity theft serves to pay into someone's retirement. If that were the only effect of identity theft, it would be silly to enforce this, but there are more effects than that, because the IRS puts the onus on the victim of fraud to prove that it's happening, and that can take years. So, third, I can see why Americans who are legitimately in the country are upset about this, too. Except for those who don't work enough to trigger an IRS investigation into their multiple incomes, most victims of identity theft are going to suffer.

Fourth, I have a lot of sympathy for the argument that immigration law is being used to prevent unions from protecting workers' rights. It certainly seems to be true - and if true, it's nasty. Unions are a valid means for groups without voice to have a say in the conditions of their lives. While it is, of course, possible to abuse them, I have more sympathy for those who want them than I have for those who want to suppress them. (And before anyone tells me that illegal workers have no rights, that, to my mind, is a huge part of the problem. They can't make a living in Mexico, making a living in the U.S. is a criminal activity, they don't have the right to work to feed their families - it would seem their only right is to be poor pawns in a political game.)

Thoughts, friends list?

Comments

[merlyn4401.livejournal.com]

We've obviously been getting alot of coverage on this in Denver, since Greely is just down the street, so to speak. I think the immigrations problem, like all geopolitical events, is so complex and multifacted that pointing to one or two things is simplistic, at best. Yes, the US has standards for immigration. So does every other country in the world. We actually have some of the most lenient immigration policies out there, and some of the most open borders. But the governemtal beaurocracy, and the country as a whole, can't keep up with the influx. Factors in Mexico are so bad that they all want to come here. And really, where else are they going to go? Go south, and the situiation is just as bad, if not worse. Eh. It's a mess. On the other hand, it ISN'T fair to people who are here legally to have our resources strained by millions of illegals. And I'm not just speaking of taxes vs welfare. I'm speaking of stress on the infrastructure - hospitals, schools, police, fire, etc.

One interesting thing that I'm not sure has gotten a lot of publicity is what happened at Swift in Greely when they started taking job apps. The line was out the door to fill the vacant positions, mostly by young white males. So much for immigrants doing the jobs americans don't want to do.

[kibbles.livejournal.com]

I've heard that Mexico has strict immigration policies and punishes harshly. I wish I still had my sources for that.

[kibbles.livejournal.com]

If they unionize, then they'll be out of work, too.

They are best off being illegal, it makes it more hireable. They can make decent take home pay but their employers aren't paying insurance, payroll taxes, etc.

Unionizing will put them out of work.

But then at least legal Americans will be working off the books then, I guess.

It's frustrating because illegal immigrants took work away from my husband. All those people who say they only do jobs Americans won't do are wrong. People who say they are paid less than minimum wage are wrong, too. The savings is in the benefits and taxes, for the employer. YES there are illegal immigrants working jobs that few people would want and sometimes less than minimum wage, but that is not always the case and in many places, pretty rare.

If they have a right to work to feed their families, so does my legal American born husband. They have no right to break the law and work on sites that turn him away because he is American. And it's happened to him more than once, and has happened to other people in construction that he knows.

Sure, make immigration easier for blue collar workers, but lets make sure that Americans who want jobs get them, too. In a way it's like parenting. If mom and dad are sick, you can't take care of the kids as well as you could. Same with America. If your taxpayers, your citizens, are going without, it means you can't take care of others as well too. America needs to be healthy to really make a difference.

Which means that war is America's drug or something that is being wasted on, if we're looking at America as a parent...I could go somewhere with this but I'm tired. ;)

[dagoski.livejournal.com]

The situation Latin America is what is driving illegal immigration. What most Americans do not realize is just how closed the economies in most Latin American countires are. This is changing down in South America with Lula and Hugo, but in Mexico and Central America, the economy is controlled by a tiny elite. It's very hard to start businesses in Mexico without connections. So the econonmy down there generates fewer and fewer jobs even as the population continues to grow. Plus government services are pretty much non-existent. People in Mexico are coming up North because it's that or pick up a gun and the Mexican government is pretty good at dealing with its opponents. Things are worse in Central America. The people who come up endure unbelievable hardships just to get here. That speaks of a lot fear and desparation. They're not coming up to the US because it's easy to get in, but because the situation in their home countries leaves them no alternative.

Now the scary thing about the Bush Republicans is that they want to create an economy based on the Mexican model. That happens, and you guys in Canada will be dealing with illegals from the US.

[paka.livejournal.com]

A poor but hardworking Latino with an American citizenship makes $7 an hour or so. Don't give him the citizenship, and he'll do the same job for $3 an hour, because it beats the alternative. People have valid, bad reasons, for hiring illegals.

And yeah... it is pretty scummy to go hire a batch of illegals instead of possibly unionized Americans. It does screw Americans. But it's pretty scummy to go put your manufacturing facilities everywhere else in the world so that you can avoid hiring unionized Americans, and you notice nobody's screaming bloody murder about that one.

Plus yeah. They are illegal. They aren't paying into the system, and that screws people too.

So there are very real issues and yeah, some sort of solution that'd make legal immigration or even shorter term legal work more feasible would be a lot better.

But then you get into the emotional issues, and the whole thing is a gigantic distraction - and I feel like a lot of very high placed people in this country profit by distraction better than by actually resolving issues.

I feel like the winners here are the Republicans and their cronies, but the big losers in all of this are the American working class, who get scapegoats when they deserve solutions, and the illegals, who get to be the target of all this abuse when they ought to be getting social services and visas.