more sleepytime blues

[velvetpage]

Okay, I'm at the end of my rope.

My daughter takes 45 minutes to go to sleep. This happens at naptime, and it happens every night. We rock her, we lay down with her on our bed, we walk with her, and no matter what we do, it takes forever for her to fall asleep.

My mom tells me that with one of us, she thinks it was my youngest sister, they eventually had to do the cry-it-out thing. It took just over an hour for Heather to get to sleep. Each night it got less, until finally she went to sleep almost immediately.

The books have several different methods, but the ones we've tried either didn't work at the time, or seemed too painful. We tried one that a friend at church suggested, where you rock the baby until she's just barely this side of sleep, then put her down. If she wakes, you let her cry a minute or so, then you go in and rock her again until she stops crying and is sleepy. The theory is that you don't want to teach a child that their cries will not be answered, but neither do you want to rock them right to sleep for the rest of their lives. We tried it, and it wasn't bad, but it didn't speed things up at all. The crying-out didn't work at six months, though we haven't given it a serious effort since.

Experienced parents, please weigh in on this one: am I spoiling my daughter by rocking her all the way to sleep, all the time? And what can we do to reclaim our evenings from the toddler with an 11:00 bedtime, self-set?

Help!

Comments

[pyat.livejournal.com]

I say we try to put her down at 9:30 tonight. Wake her up early from her nap, perhaps.

Which cry it out method was it you tried?

[lousy-timing.livejournal.com]

I was told "cry it out" methods are best saved for toddlers, which is where you are now. I was also told that it's not good to not to stop reacting to their every cry once they reach the toddler age because they understand cause and effect more and more, so they will begin to manipulate as a form of play. The method I was given by my daughter's pediatrician worked well with her, but not for her brother. Of course, the way in which he reacted to this method was one of the clues that he had bigger issues...

Anyway, it was a progressive method. On the first night, you go in to reassure your child when they cry the first time as usual. The second time you let your child cry for five minutes before going in to reassure them. The third time, ten, the fourth, fifteen, etc.

On the second night, you start by waiting five minutes before going in, and then each time they wake, increase the intervals by five minutes as you did before. On the third night, wait ten minutes before you go in the first time, on the fourth night, fifteen.

Because of the increased time intervals, they're supposed to understand you haven't abandoned them, but start figuring out how to comfort themselves so they can go back to sleep.

It's something to try, anyway, if you haven't already.

Re: Which cry it out method was it you tried?

[velvetpage.livejournal.com]

I like this idea. It assauges my guilt at not answering her every cry, and it still allows enough time for her to start to settle down.

Question: what do you do if she refuses to be reassured when you go in? That was what stopped me an hour ago - she continued to sob off and on for the entire time I was holding her, and I hadn't pulled my hand from under her head before she was at full throttle again.

Re: Which cry it out method was it you tried?

[lousy-timing.livejournal.com]

I had to leave anyway. You'd have to leave, too.

I talked to her, though- told her I loved her, told her that she had all of her favorite things and that I was in my room, but that it was sleep time. I told her that she didn't need me there for sleep time, because she was a big girl, but I was close by and would hear if it she "really" needed me, and that mommies (and daddies, 'cause pyat will need to do the same thing) know when their children "really" need them. We found that she really did cry differently when she was sick after she started sleeping through the night, or we could finally tell the difference.

I liked the method for the same reason, but it was still hard. Five minutes can seem like an eternity. The second night was easier, though, and you start to see how they play with you sometimes. We also found that just as we were about to get up at the end of one of the intervals, she'd stop crying.

I'll admit that I was reluctant to try anything because of mommy guilt and the worry that it wouldn't work. I trusted this particular doctor, because she had four children under the age of eight, and it had worked with three of them. I figured it was worth a shot. Well, that, and I was really, really tired, and I think you know how much that can motivate you. ;)

Re: Which cry it out method was it you tried?

[velvetpage.livejournal.com]

I'm wondering now whether this week is a good time to try this. Piet leaves on Thursday, so days 1 and 2 he'll be here for, and then he'll be gone and if something goes wrong, I'll have no support.

On the other hand, as things stand, I'll be trying to put a baby to sleep for an hour and half or so out of every day he's away. THat doesn't sound like much fun, either. And we have to get this sorted out before I go back to school. That's three weeks away.

Okay, tonight it is. I'll keep you posted on progress, and cry on your cyber-shoulder if it doesn't work. :)

Re: Which cry it out method was it you tried?

[lousy-timing.livejournal.com]

It took just three or four days to get her (mostly) able to do the sleep thing on her own, so hopefully, Elizabeth will be all set before he leaves.

Give all the shout-outs you need while he's away. That's what I'm/we're here for! :)

Re: Which cry it out method was it you tried?

[velvetpage.livejournal.com]

Thanks! I'll probably post at least once while I'm trying to ignore the screaming. Look for it around 10:00 tonight, maybe earlier if she looks sleepy earlier.

AFter I get her going to sleep on her own, the next step is a clear bedtime. I think 8:30 is reasonable when she's still napping during the day. THen again, "reasonable" is not a good description of how Elizabeth sleeps.

Not reasonable?

[lousy-timing.livejournal.com]

Does she have any sort of a pattern at all so far?

Re: Not reasonable?

[velvetpage.livejournal.com]

Well, she has a nap which lasts at least one hour but never more than three, sometime in the afternoon. Lately she's been going to bed between ten and eleven. She wakes up in the night usually once, but sometimes not at all until about 7:00. Our habit during the summer has been to take her into bed with us at that point and have her sleep another hour or so, but that's about to stop cold turkey.

The only thing irregular is her bedtime; it depends very much on how long she's been awake and what she's done to be tired. Sometimes she'll nap at noon, sometimes not till 4:00; sometimes she's in bed by nine, sometimes (though rarely) it's nearly midnight. It's just really tough to predict.

Re: Which cry it out method was it you tried?

[velvetpage.livejournal.com]

Help! We started about half an hour ago, and she threw up quite promptly. Of course, we had to clean up from that. On the plus side, her pyjamas were all clean; on the down side, her other crib sheet was not. So I improvised with a quilt, read her an alphabet book, and put her back down.

This is heartrending! I understand perfectly how so many parents end up spoiling their kids when it comes to sleep. If this is discipline, I'm not sure it's worth it.

Two more minutes before I go in. Since she was crying from the second I put her in the crib, I figured I'd wait five. At least this time I'm not hearing any signs of retching.

Tell me this gets better as the nights go on. Please.

Re: Which cry it out method was it you tried?

[lousy-timing.livejournal.com]

Okay- if she retches- GO. It does get better, but I'm telling you now that if she gets more upset instead of less upset as the time lengthens and doesn't settle down between periods or vomits, STOP.

If that happens, I'll tell you Cole stories tomorrow, and give you some different sleep-help ideas.

Oh, and yes, it is absolutely heartbreaking.

I just re-read that...

[lousy-timing.livejournal.com]

Sorry, all the computers were occupied earlier.

When I re-read that and saw that she vomited right away, I wondered how long before bed she had eaten? I couldn't feed my daughter dinner any closer to bed than an hour and a half, or she'd get sick, especially when there was milk of any sort involved.

Seriously, though, if she cries so hard that it makes her vomit, I'd stop. Once might have been a fluke, and I'd let it go. Beyond that, though, I wouldn't push it.

Re: I just re-read that...

[velvetpage.livejournal.com]

She had a bottle of milk within half an hour of bed. Another bed-time ritual just bit the dust, I think. I'm not risking that tomorrow. I don't have enough crib sheets to do that every night.

She's asleep. Thanks for the support.

Re: I just re-read that...

[lousy-timing.livejournal.com]

I'd have warned you, but that, unfortunately, was forgotten with time until you cried, "HELP!" It has been a while...

I'm glad she's sleeping, and I will hope for an easier time of things tomorrow. Now, go get some rest. :)