velvetpage: (cat in teacup)
[personal profile] velvetpage


I am sick and tired of the "socialism is anti-American" line of argument. It's fallacious on several levels.

Why, yes, I am going to enumerate them for you! How did you guess?

1) You (whoever you are who says this) do not get to dictate what is and is not acceptable to be an American. America is a nation of 300 million people. You don't speak for all of them. Nobody does.

2) I don't honestly care what the founding fathers said about the nation they were founding. That was two hundred thirty-three years ago. They do not live in it now and nobody is obligated to take their intentions to heart when deciding on the future path of the nation they helped fashion, unless those intentions were codified in the Constitution. Even then, they are open to modern interpretation. There are multiple avenues worked into your system of government to allow for exactly that.

3) Speaking of the Constitution, telling someone that they are un-American if they believe such-and-such is incredibly hypocritical for someone who upholds the Constitution and the founding fathers as the highest authorities on which to base current policies. What it's saying is, "You have no right to call yourself American if you believe that." Problem is, the Constitution says people do have exactly that right. That statement contravenes the rights of freedom of speech, freedom of conscience/religion, potentially freedom of association depending on how you phrase it - I could go on.

If you believe in your own constitution, then you must also believe in the right of any American to believe exactly what they want, and say what they want, and continue to live freely without persecution as a result of what they say or believe, provided their actions surrounding those beliefs are peaceful. How does the saying go - I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it? Anything less than that is hypocritical for someone who points to the constitution for their political and ideological guidance.

For the record, Canada has similar values. We have a Charter of Rights and Freedoms that contains all the same freedoms as yours, with the exception of the right to bear arms. I don't have the right to vote in the United States, and I will likely never seek that right. But the rights I claim as a citizen of my own country are comparable. Much as I disagree with most conservative politicians on most items (not all) I want them to change their opinions - not stop talking about them. They have a right to their opinions and to speak freely about those opinions, and I will never, ever tell them they don't. Democracy depends on a free exchange of ideas amongst citizens. I will never accept less than that of myself or any political discourse in which I engage.

As an American myself...

Date: 2009-12-25 08:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] amyura.livejournal.com
1) THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU!!!! There is NOTHING inherently anti-American about socialism. Hell, many of the most successful European socialist countries got that way after WWII with the US's blessing. There's also nothing inherently GOOD about America's allies. I'm thinking particularly of all our allies during the cold war in the developing world. Mobutu, Noriega and Pinochet were "good" simply because they weren't communists; Ho Chi Minh was "bad" simply because he was a communist. WTF?

2) Damn straight. And what was that about the establishment clause again? And the fact that the second amendment just says "keep and bear arms." It doesn't say "keep and bear high-tech automatic weapons with no restrictions whatsoever." AND as you pointed out, they wrote the Constitution with built-in mechanisms allowing it to change.

3) Exactly. I'm too tired and busy to continue on a long rant agreeing with you, but just....YES.

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